I'm looking for local SF plants for revegetation of Edgehill Mountain
(near West Portal) We have $1500 & I have a plant list of things I'd
like. Take a look at  ttp://www.edgehill.net/newplant.htm to see what I
had in mind. Some things like toyon probably don't matter where the seed

stock comes from but mostly I'm looking for local stuff like the
particular strain of iris from twin peaks. The site is a very steep
chert & shale slope overgrown with eucalyptus, pine & cypress and we
have cleared a sunny portion of it. Another special plant I'm interested

in is the local prostrate form of evergreen huckleberry. I'm open to
suggestions though.

Subject:
             Re: San Francisco Revegetation
        Date:
             Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:10:22 -0700
       From:
             Dave Sands <gonative@coastside.net>
 Organization:
             Go Native Nursery
         To:
             Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
 
Paul, thanks for the e-mail.  I will check your site this evening when I get
back to the office and let you know what we have available.  Most of my
stock comes from the local Montara Mtn area, Half Moon Bay , Pacifica, etc.
When are you planning to plant, during the rainy season?  You still have
several months or more to grow, perhaps my nursery manager can collect at
your site and grow out some stock for you this year.  She lives in SF.

Talk to you later,
Dave

Subject:
            Re: San Francisco Revegetation
       Date:
            Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:47:11 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            Dave Sands <gonative@coastside.net>
 References:
            1 , 2
 
 
 

What do you have in stock from Montara Mountain? Rec & Park wants us to look at
having the Log Cabin Ranch people propagate & grow things for us but I'm not
sure that will happen in time for planting this fall/winter. Lisa Wayne is the
director of the Natural Areas Program for SF Rec & Park, she is extra concerned
that we use local stuff but I'm sure Montara Mountain is fine. If you did
propagation for us & contract grew it, what kind of costs would we be looking
at?

The money is coming from a grant from The Mayor's office & I need to submit a
bill immediately or else the Neighborhood association loses the money so any
idea of estimating what we can get for the money would be most helpful. ASAP if
possible.

I'm guessing we use liners or 4" pots for most of the grasses & wildflowers &
mabey a few things in 1 gallons but it's really steep & rocky so the smaller the
better. If you can do the local huckleberries, they probably need to be 1
gallons from cuttings & may not be ready till spring I'm guessing. We have seed
from the phacelia ramosissima & could mabey just stick the seed in the ground, I
think it's pretty weedy. I don't know grasses that well but stipa is boring & I
know the fescues are nice spilling down a slope, isn't occidentalis the small
one?

Subject:
            Re: San Francisco Revegetation
       Date:
            Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:50:55 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            Dave Sands <gonative@coastside.net>

I talked with the Log Cabin folks & they didn't think there was much that could
be grown in time so if you have things in stock or think you can get on it quick
enough to get things ready, that's great. I haven't heard from anyone else I
emailed the initial request to. I'm out next week. I attached the approximate
bill (just a guess at this point) that I'll be submitting. If you can call to
discuss this weekend that would be great. I don't check my email at home & I
have a day job so it's hard to spend too much time on the phone during the week.

Thanks

ubject:
        Edgehill Mountain plant list
   Date:
        Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:40:13 +0000
   From:
        "Craig C. Dremann" <craig@ecoseeds.com>
     To:
        paul@edgehill.net
    CC:
        craig@ecoseeds.com
 
 
 

Thank you for your email, and I have looked over your plant list.  I
don't know if you have read our genetic research in GRASSLANDS, the
journal of the California Native Grass Association, but we included San
Francisco in a 1991 genetic survey we did of the Bay Area.  We found the
material on each of San Francisco's hills to be different from each
other but somewhat related like cousins, but they in turn were radically
different from any other populations of the same species from any of the
other nine Bay Area counties.  The closest "relatives" were San Bruno
and Montara Mtn. to Half Moon Bay.  I doubt that many nurseries will
have much of your local material "on-hand" and we never would because we
only grow plants from customer-supplied seed.

We have a web page of our other activities regarding natives at
http://www.ecoseeds.com/nature.html. Once you've gotten over the hurdle
of collecting your own local seed and get some plants grown from that
seed, you'll have to break the barrier of planting them properly so they
don't become a big exotic weed patch within a year to two. That's the
work we do, to get the native restoration planted correctly the first
time. However, you budget of $1,500 is way too small to accomplish
anything that will be of a substantial size or longevity:

A minimum of $25,000 should be gathered to do it right the first time.
Otherwise you're project may end up like the native grass and forb
experiment in the center-divide of University Ave. in Berkeley, which
failed within 6 months.

I hope you find our web-information of interest, and remain,

Sincerely,  Craig C. Dremann, The Reveg Edge, Redwood City, Ca.

Subject:
             EDGEHILLE MOUNTAIN
        Date:
             Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:27:00 +0000
       From:
             Ann Chandler <cornflwr@earthlink.net>
 Organization:
             Cornflower Farms
         To:
             Paul_Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
 
 
 

Paul,
Unfortunately, we do not have many plants from your list currently
available.  We do currently have:  Ceanothus thrysiforus in liner pots,
2-1/4"x3", ($0.68)  from the coast; Hetermoles arbutifolia in Deepots,
2-1/2'x10", ($3.50) from Grass Valley; Potentilla glandulosa in liner
pots ($0.67), not sure of source; and Quercus agrifolia in Deepots from
south of Hollister ($3.50).

If you haven't already, you may want to contact Elkhorn Native Plants,
408/763-1703, and North Coast Native Nursery, 707/769-1230.

Please contact us if we can be of more help.

Sincerely,
Amelia Pohl
Cornflower Farms

Subject:
        Hello from Paul Furman -new member-
   Date:
        Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:56:35 -0700
   From:
        Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
     To:
        Native Plant Disccussion Group <CA-NATIVES@CALYPTEANNA.COM>,
        Joan Kingery <jkingsf@pacbell.net>

Hello All,

I'm a landscape architect / amateur naturalist who is beginning to start
doing my own work in the native plant / restoration realm. I have a day
job designing public parks & estate gardens, where we use a good deal of
Medeteranian "natives" & California "native" cultivars. Over the last
several months I have been volunteering for the SF Rec & Park Dept and
the Edgehill Mountain neighborhood association putting together a
Natural Areas Management Plan which you can see at
http://www.edgehill.net as I update & expand it. Edgehill Mountain is a
spectacular rocky weed patch covered with eucalyptus & cypress above
West Portal in San Francisco. The neighborhood association is highly
motivated to clean it up & although none of them know much about native
plants, they can see that restoration is the best use for the land.
Because the site is completely overgrown, it's not been getting priority
treatment from the more hard core native plant folks but we are starting
to develop a plan & have been having work partys on the second saturday
of each month.

As a consequence of the weeding, we've got a good 30-foot by 50-foot
area of steep soil with rock outcroppings cleared (not much native
remains there) which needs to be replanted as soon as possible for
erosion control reasons. The problem is, it's hard to find plants &
there isn't enough time to grow much for this year. Just recently the
neighborhood association has recieved some grant money from the mayor's
office for plants. I had thought I could find some local nurseries with
material on hand but it seems more difficult than I thought. Rec & Park
has suggested some people who could collect seeds & cuttings & have the
Log Cabin Boy's School folks grow them for us. I also sent out a batch
of emails to nurseries I found at nativehabitats.org
http://members.aol.com/gstigall/calret.htm & recieved a reply from  Dave
Sands <gonative@coastside.net> in Montara saying sure, he could help and
from "Craig C. Dremann" <craig@ecoseeds.com> The Reveg Edge, Redwood
City, Ca. warning that it would be alot more difficult than I thought:
<<Thank you for your email, and I have looked over your plant list.  I
don't know if you have read our genetic research in GRASSLANDS, the
journal of the California Native Grass Association, but we included San
Francisco in a 1991 genetic survey we did of the Bay Area.  We found the

material on each of San Francisco's hills to be different from each
other but somewhat related like cousins, but they in turn were radically

different from any other populations of the same species from any of the

other nine Bay Area counties.  The closest "relatives" were San Bruno
and Montara Mtn. to Half Moon Bay.  I doubt that many nurseries will
have much of your local material "on-hand" and we never would because we

only grow plants from customer-supplied seed...>>

The plants I'm thinking about are listed at:
http://www.edgehill.net/newplant.htm I'm especially excited about
getting some bulbs. I have brodaea laxa from a construction site near my
house & there is brodaea pulchella (dichlostemma capitata) on-site but
mabey also allium, chlorogalum and checker lilly. Apparently dudleya is
easy to grow from seed, we have that on site, it is perfect for the
rocks & I love dudleya. I also collected some phacelia ramossissima seed
on-site. This is a very weedy species which is good for this year. We
were thinking that it might be better to plant that in the ground rather
than get it started in a nursery. If anyone has thoughts on that, I'd be
interested. One more plant I really want is vaccinium (huckleberry) but
I know that it is very slow. I've grown it from seed & after 3 years in
the pot I tried planting it out & it was too small to keep track of even
in my well tended native garden. I'm thinking cuttings might be more
practical but I'm not sure how much there is in the city to collect
from. I've seen it in the Marin Headlands & there is probably some on
San Bruno Mountain or Montara Mountain that is close enough not to
tamper with the gene pool. I'd also like to get some yerba buena going
along the trail but I don't even know if there are signifigant patches
in the city to take cuttings from. I've got tons of it in my yard from
various sources & wonder how much the genetic source really matters for
some of these things.

Perhaps someone knows which species are available now somewhere and are
not so sensitive to genetic fiddling so that we can get some erosion
control planting this year & then start growing from seed for next year
to add more diversity.

Sorry about the long post, I could go on forever but I'll cut it off
here for now. I look forward to talking with all of you.

Subject:
        Re: your posting
   Date:
        Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:53:11 -0700
   From:
        "Diana Hickson" <DHickson@dfg.ca.gov>
     To:
        <paul@edgehill.net>
 
 
 

Have you spoken with Jake Sigg? He seems to know the parks in San Francisco
like the back of his hand, and may be able to tell you if there are any populations
of appropriate natives in the City that could withstand some seed or cutting collection.

Good luck on your noble cause!

Diana

___________________________________________________________
NOTE NEW MAILING AND EMAIL ADDRESS AND FAX:
Diana Hickson, Associate Botanist
Species Conservation and Recovery Program
Habitat Conservation Planning Branch/Habitat Conservation Division
California Department of Fish and Game
1416 Ninth Street   Sacramento, CA 95814
(916) 327-5956  fax (916) 653-2588
dhickson@dfg.ca.gov

Subject:
            Re: your posting
       Date:
            Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:16:29 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            Diana Hickson <DHickson@dfg.ca.gov>

I haven't approached him but I heard he was very pessimistic about our little weed patch in the past.

Thanks for the thought though, I should probably contact Jake again now that we are starting to make it a little more real.

Subject:
          Re: Hello from Paul Furman -new member-
     Date:
          Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:28:33 -0700
     From:
          Martha Booz <mlbooz@CALNATIVES.COM>
 Reply-To:
          California Natives <CA-NATIVES@cambria.com>
       To:
          CA-NATIVES@CALYPTEANNA.COM

Hi Paul,

Are you aware of the Native Here Nursery in the East Bay?  It will be open
September 25, from 10 am to 1 pm, and Friday mornings from 9 am to noon.
It is located in Tilden Park. Charli Danielsen manages it. She is at
cwd@wli.net or 549-0211. They might have enough at once to get you going.

Also, the East Bay CNPS native plant sale at Merritt College will be
October 2, and the Santa Cruz Herbarium native plant sale will be October
9.

You might check the ebCNPS web site, www.ebcnps.org.

Good luck!

Subject:
        Comment on natives
   Date:
        Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:02:20 -0700
   From:
   To:
        paul@edgehill.net

Hi Paul,
I... thought I would add privately
that in my opinion itdoes not matter in a city whether you replant with
species that belong there. If you can find something that you and the
neighbors like, and it will grow well there, go ahead and plant it.

Of course, out in the wilds, an effort should be made to restore with what
was there before.

One of the main lessons I am learning is that things change, and it's okay
if they do. So go ahead and plant what you like and what you can find.

Best regards,

Subject:
            Re: Comment on natives
       Date:
            Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:50 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
 
Actually, there are "signifigant" natural areas in San Francisco. It's
surprising but because of the hilly terrain there are small areas of beautiful
nearly pristine wildflower meadows supporting incredible diversity and even
endangered species. There are at least two such patches within a quarter mile
of Edgehill. I'm sure you are right that it is overkill to worry about most
species but the Rec & Park people & the CNPS people are very hard core here & I
do respect the idea of keeping it real. For one thing by keeping the project
pure, I hope to earn the respect of the purists rather than have them just
laugh at the effort as a "silly garden". Actually I was hoping to avoid
bringing in anything new at first & just work with what is on site. I've put
together a list of 30 or so species existing there. I think I'll try to keep
the number of introductions simple for now & see how it goes. Rec & Park pretty
much insists on super-local seed stock

Thank you for sharing your thoughts,

Subject:
            Re: Hello from Paul Furman -new member-
       Date:
            Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:28:50 -0700
      From:
            Gregory McCann <greg@cambria.com>
   Reply-To:
            California Natives <CA-NATIVES@cambria.com>
        To:
            CA-NATIVES@CALYPTEANNA.COM
Paul -

A couple more local native plant nurseries that I know about...

Yerba Buena Nursery in Woodside http://www.yerbabuenanursery.com
Native Revival in Aptos
Larner Seeds in Bolinas

Also see the book Gardening With a Wild Heart by Judith Larner Lowry (of Larner Seeds in Bolinas).  There is a big list of native plant sources in one of the appendixes.

Greg
 

Subject:
          Sources was (Re: Hello from Paul Furman -new member-)
     Date:
          Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:34:35 EDT
     From:
          Georgia Stigall <GStigall@AOL.COM>
 Reply-To:
          California Natives <CA-NATIVES@cambria.com>
       To:
          CA-NATIVES@CALYPTEANNA.COM

There's a list of sources on our web site at
http://www.nativehabitats.org/calret.htm

We'll add a reference to Judith's book as well.

Georgia Stigall
Native Habitats
 

Subject:
        Scope of Work
   Date:
        Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:06:44 -0700
   From:
        Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
     To:
        Joan Kingery <jkingsf@pacbell.net>
 
 
 

Sorry to cut you off yesterday. You were saying you want a more detailed
scope of work for the planting fund. That's fine, we will talk more
about what you need. I had stated on the invoice that it would be for
planting this year but now I'm thinking some portion may go to contract
growing things for next year. Take a look at this note & the others I
forwarded to you & we'll try to talk mabey this weekend about what
direction you would like to go.

I'm not sure how the nurseries charge for contract growing, whether it's
all paid up-front or we can pay some portion now & the balance on
delivery next year or whether you would want to do that.

Lisa's contact, Noreen Yee 824-3312 mentioned approx. $500 to collect
seeds 15-20 hrs at $30/hr. Noreen Works part time for SLUG with The Log
Cabin Scool but she used to run the nursery for years & knows the
plants. I think we would be hiring her as a private consultant.

Chris & Lisa have alot of seed That I would think we should be able to
use, not all the special things I'm thinking of but some. Lisa also
talked about at least some live plants they could contribute.

David Sands, Go Native Nursery, Montara seemed like he could do pretty
well for us also with one of his staff living in the City who could
collect seed. I haven't had time to get back to him but should probably
get some specifics about contract growing & it sounds like he may have
something appropriate in stock.

Subject:
            Re: San Francisco Revegetation
       Date:
            Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:34 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            Dave Sands <gonative@coastside.net>, Joan Kingery <jkingsf@pacbell.net>
Dave,

I got your email & phone message. If you don't mind, it is more convenient to
talk via email.

There isn't much to collect on-site (just a weedy mess). If your nursery manager
knows other SF locations to collect, can she do that with all the proper
permits? (Rec & Park wants to do things by the book) & how would you charge for
that? I'm thinking of keeping the plant pallete simple for this year but also
collecting some things to be grown for next year. These are listed in order of
preference (stuff on top I want most). I'm sure this project will go on for
several years. Look at the list & let me know what you think you can be the most
successful with. I can get other people to collect also if needed.

This Year:
FESTUCA RUBRA (OCCIDENTALIS?) -basic erosion control, makes nice bunches in time

MIMULUS AURANTICUS
ACHILLEA MILLEFOLIUM (seed more economic & just as successful?)
ARTEMISIA CALIFORNICA -a little bit on site (cuttings?) -enough sun?
CEANOTHUS THYRSIFLORUS
PHACELIA RAMOSSISIMA -I have seed (start in pots?)
ERIOPHYLUM SPP -confertifolium & or stachytifolium

Next Year:
VACCINIUM OVATUM (cuttings) 1-gal -big enough to survive (+- 100 wanted)
DUDLEYA CYMOSA -on site from seed, still blooming
IRIS DOUGLASII -from twin peaks -start a patch to divide from (in good soil on
site)
BRODAEA PULCHELLA -on site
ALLIUM UNIFOLIUM
FRITILLARIA LANCEOLATA
MONARDELLA VILLOSA 'FRANCISCIANA'
   -I've started a little bit from seed from CSPS sale but need more diversity
CHLOROGALUM POMERANIUM -a little bit on-site
ERIOGONOM  LATIFOLIUM
HETEROMELES ARBUTIFOLIA -on site
LUPINUS SPP -seed ( low form for mission blue btrfly)
LUPINUS SPP -tall blue bush form
SALVIA SPP -red species from San Bruno Mtn.?
SATUREJA DOUGLASII -I may take cuttings from my yard (not really local though)
VIOLA SPP
SIDELACEA MALVAEFLORA -enough sun?
HETEROMELES ARBUTIFOLIA -on site probably will appear on cleared ground anyways?

SYMPHOROCARPUS ALBA -on site, cuttings? berries?

Mabey for the "next year list" we pay you some portion now to get it started &
pay the balance next fall when it's ready? How would this work? I gathered some
seed for the phacelia on-site but I'm thinking it may be better to just plant
the seed in the ground, this is a very weedy species. If you think it would be a
benefit to start them in pots, we could do that. I've heard that some lupines
are best grown with seed directly in the ground.

Subject:
        Edgehill Mountain ecological restoration.
   Date:
        Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:36:55 +0000
   From:
        "Craig C. Dremann" <craig@ecoseeds.com>
     To:
        paul@edgehill.net
    CC:
        craig@ecoseeds.com

Paul Furman

Thank you for your email.
1.) Material on Marin headlands is very different genetically and also
the species composition is different from San Francisco hills.

2.) Don't think about natives for erosion control if you don't have the
right genetic material already grown!  Best to just put down wheat straw
mulch, than plant any plants or seeds this winter.

3.) Get prepared now for serious seed collections in spring 2000 of the
local natives.  Winter 1999-spring 2000 would be a good time to locate
your future seed-producing plants and keep these seed plants as
weed-free as possible, to allow them the best opportunity to produce
seed for you next year.

4.) You can't get by relying only on volunteer labor, without some
professional help in building the framework that will ensure success for
these volunteer's efforts.  The bad example of this is the native grass
and forb planting in Berkeley in the center-divide on University Ave.,
where volunteers were out every weekend for two years, and all the
volunteers in the world couldn't keep that project from failure.

That's why you need to get a minimum of $25,000 for your project, so you
you can hire the nursery-help and consultants that you need to do your
project right from the beginning. You are a professional architect, so
you know what it takes for a formal planting that is maintained with
irrigation.  Doing dry-land ecological restoration in California is
1,000 times more difficult, and needs the necessary resources and
expertise to be successful.

Sincerely,  Craig C. Dremann, The Reveg Edge.

Subject:
            Re: Edgehill Mountain ecological restoration.
       Date:
            Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:00:36 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            "Craig C. Dremann" <craig@ecoseeds.com>, Joan Kingery <jkingsf@pacbell.net>
 
"Craig C. Dremann" wrote:

> 1.) Material on Marin headlands is very different genetically and also
> the species composition is different from San Francisco hills.

Somehow I knew you'd say that, I don't recall where I had read that little
bit.

> 2.) Don't think about natives for erosion control if you don't have the
> right genetic material already grown!  Best to just put down wheat straw
> mulch, than plant any plants or seeds this winter.

Again, I believe the fescues could be grown in time & I know they are a
beautiful long lasting bunchgrass if they don't dry up & die the first
summer. There is heavy fog drip on-site, do you know if rotting might be a
problem?  or if other species might be more successful. We have some
phacelia seed that should spread easily & create more seed for next year
unless there are so many weeds that we have to strip the site again in which
case I'd probably do it in smaller patches. It wasn't my idea to clear such
a big area. We could probably get the cape ivy to grow back real quick if it
looks like a thistle infestation or something awful. Another thing we have
is alot of ferns. The polypody ferns are real easy to divide & spread & the
wood ferns will also do well from divisions from my experience. I'm
skeptical about buying foreign mulch with potential new weed seeds in it. At
least paying for plants, even if they die we will have learned something. We
can buy a limited amount of 1 gallon & 4" pots from the CNPS plant sale
also. Another thing that is super easy to propagate is sticky monkey flower.
Seeds grow quick & cuttings can be made in a matter of a couple months or
twigs poked directly into the ground. I think artemisia is similarly easy
but may rot in the fog drip.

> 3.) Get prepared now for serious seed collections in spring 2000 of the
> local natives.  Winter 1999-spring 2000 would be a good time to locate
> your future seed-producing plants and keep these seed plants as
> weed-free as possible, to allow them the best opportunity to produce
> seed for you next year.

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea, I'll do that.

> 4.) You can't get by relying only on volunteer labor, without some
> professional help in building the framework that will ensure success for
> these volunteer's efforts.  The bad example of this is the native grass
> and forb planting in Berkeley in the center-divide on University Ave.,
> where volunteers were out every weekend for two years, and all the
> volunteers in the world couldn't keep that project from failure.

I'm not familiar with this project. We are calling on various informed
sources to help out (yourself included) and I'm learning. I've experimented
in my own yard with 150 species & I've been watching & weeding & learning in
a negelcted area of the Marin Headlands for a couple years. The Rec & Park
Dept. is also watching us closely with their own restoration staff.

> That's why you need to get a minimum of $25,000 for your project, so you
> you can hire the nursery-help and consultants that you need to do your
> project right from the beginning. You are a professional architect, so
> you know what it takes for a formal planting that is maintained with
> irrigation.  Doing dry-land ecological restoration in California is
> 1,000 times more difficult, and needs the necessary resources and
> expertise to be successful.

I'm sure you are right, and we are getting there, gradually. If you are
interested & think you could provide some productive advice for a limited
number of hours of consulting, we might be interested but we don't have a
big budget yet.

PS, do you mind if I post these conversations on our web site? (no offense
taken if not) Your comments make for very stimulating conversation. I've
been trying to drum up some discussion at the following email discussion
group mailto:CA-NATIVES@cambria.com
 
 

Subject:
          Re: Hello from Paul Furman -new member-
     Date:
          Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:20:43 -0800
     From:
          Marianne Edain <wean@WHIDBEY.NET>
 Reply-To:
          California Natives <CA-NATIVES@cambria.com>
       To:
          CA-NATIVES@CALYPTEANNA.COM
Paul,
        I will repeat my mantra for the  Nth time: PLAN BEFORE YOU CLEAR.
While it's fun to rip and tear out exotics, the bare ground presents a
problem. It's much less fun in the short term, but ecologically more sound,
to plan, acquire plant material, and THEN have the weeding party, knowing
that you will have the plant material to set out the very next day.
        Luckily, the mine revegetation industry has a "technical save" for
you: Regreen (that's the brand name) sterile wheat x wheatgrass. It's
sterile, so will persist one year. It gives the erosion control you need
while you figure out what to do next and where to find (or grow) that
elusive plant material. Because it was created for Rocky Mountain mine
tailing pile conditions, we have been having to learn how to adapt it for
use here in the Pacific North Wet. You would probably have to experiment a
bit with how it will work in the Bay Area, but I think it would be useful.
        For any of you who don't know yet, the Society for Ecological
Restoration is holding its annual meeting in San Francisco ( at the
Presidio) September 22-25. Great place to discuss exactly this sort of
project, and get ideas from other folks.
        We can't be there, but if we were, we'd be handing out copies of
our short  "How to Plan A Restoration Project." We don't have a website
yet, but when we do, we will post it. If you can't wait, e.mail us back for
a hard copy.
 

Marianne Edain

Frosty Hollow Ecological Restoration

wean@whidbey.net

Subject:
            Re: invasive species removal
       Date:
            Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:30:56 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            California Natives <CA-NATIVES@cambria.com>

<<While I don't dispute the sound wisdom of being prepared with a plan for
revegetation (and much more: weeding, monitoring, etc.), I would like to
caution against letting the lack of such preparations and planning stop or
delay plans to remove non-native species.  This issue needs to be addressed
on an individual case basis, and the more critical issue, I believe, is
planning for follow-up work, that may or may not include revegetation.>>

Case study: Our project site is almost entirely weeds (cape ivy, algerian ivy &
erharta grass). The area that has been cleared is surrounding a rock
outcropping so there will be surface erosion but no deep mudslides. I had
really hoped to go at it very slowly & try to clear bits & pieces & let the
native seed stock emerge & surprise us. There is Brodaea & Phacelia growing
nearby where some geologic test pits were dug, pulling up old seeds & exposing
soil about 5 years ago. There is also a weedy radish on these spots. Erharta
grass is a big problem, it is a perenniel that makes seeds all year round &
seems very difficult to eradicate. I'd rather have the cape ivy than erharta
grass if that's all I had to choose from. I'd like to get the Phacelia to grow
like a weed. Something I tried in my yard was Montia (Miners Lettuce) under big
cypress & pines & it grew like a wildfire out of control then it dried up in
the summer leaving the iris & even young shrubs strangled & smothered. I'm
hoping this will still be a success in the long run, that things will gradually
do well in the wake of the montia invasion. I'm hoping the native weeds will
have hidden mechanisms that work in the right direction. Achillea (Yarrow) is
another native weed that might do well to cover the ground in the first years.

<<What do others think?>>

I'm excited about seeing what comes up & learning which things we plant do well
or not & why. It may be a mess but as long as there isn't some catostrophic
invasion I'm sure we will learn something. The ivy cover is so thick that you
can't just start things in tiny little patches unless you come out every three
days to mow the ivy back. Therefore we are forced to clear a fairly big area.
However the neighborhood volunteers will start to lose heart if each cleared
patch just goes back to weeds every winter though.

The city gave me a bunch of xeroxed reading material when I began volunteering
for this including the following summary of "The Bradley Method" for improving
natural areas with weed problems. I found this to be excellent advice at least
where there is a significant amount of native material still existing.
http://www.EDGEHILL.net/bradley.htm

Another area they have been clearing for a few years is a couple of polypody
fern patches with a few sword ferns & not much else. Does anyone have ideas for
what to plant outside the patch of ferns to gradually expand toward the ivy? It
gets a ring of soil cleared around the ferns every year & the ivy just keeps
coming back. We could divide the polypody rhizomes but what else could be
added? I've seen Chlorogalum (soap plant) grow with polypody but it's real slow
to start from seed & also dies back in late summer. I've got some Smilacina
(false solomon's seal) that divides easily.

Subject:
            Re: San Francisco ecological restoration.
       Date:
            Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:16:17 -0700
      From:
            Paul Furman <paul@edgehill.net>
        To:
            "Craig C. Dremann" <craig@ecoseeds.com>, Joan Kingery <jkingsf@pacbell.net>
 References:
            1
 
 
 

So I can see that you really want to be more deeply involved but please
consider whether you could provide some value to our project an a limited
hourly consulting basis at this time. Mabey just a site visit & sitting down
talking about the plant list & see if there are some important things we are
missing.

"Craig C. Dremann" wrote:

> As far as I know, we are the oldest commercial firm (since 1972) to do
> dryland ecological restoration on the West Coast with local native
> grasses.
>
> Everyone wanting to attempt dryland ecological restoration in California
> will begin the most difficult exercise you can do with plants: You are
> trying to resurrect an extinct or dead plant community with whatever
> skills you have as a "land-doctor."

Ah ha! so it really is difficult! It's not just my imagination. It seems
much easier to do a little improvement on areas that still have a good deal
of the ecosystem intact. And more valuable in terms of saving threatened
habitat because so much less effort is involved. Do you think it might be a
waste of time revegetating highly disturbed areas with natives? My thinking
is that those are the areas where money & resources are already being spent
& it would be better in the long run to try & rebuild a self sustaining
native system than to just cover it in iceplant. We use alot of native
cultivars at the office but we count on irrigation & soil amendments just
like with the other ornamentals & I don't think most of it will still be
around in 50 or 100 years. We were discouraged from approaching the
naturalist community for support on fixing up this park & told that it's
hopeless but I think with patience & planning, this will succeed & that it
can be done much less expensively than trying to bring in irrigation, exotic
ornamentals & a hired gardener staff forever.

> ...I'm hoping that
> in my lifetime that there will be a need and value in land-doctoring.

I believe so.

>  It sounds from the experiments you described that you are conducting
> that you are trying to become a land-doctor also.

Yes, I thought about calling myself "Slope Doctor" but it seemed too corny.
land doctor sounds good.

> My only suggestion is
> that if you are going to do your learning under a public spot-light, you
> need to have someone pay for the show and the lighting crew.  Otherwise
> the knowledge you gain will have no value to society.  If society gets
> something for free, it is considered worthless; if it has to pay, it is
> considered valuable and is treasured.  Why should our knowledge of the
> natural environment be worthless?

The community is paying with their labor, so I think that will let them see
the value & they have money too which is mostly devoted to purchasing
adjacent developer's land to add to the park. I've never been good at asking
for money. I figure I'll just do what I love & when I am able to do it well,
people will see the value & ask for my help. But that's just my view. In the
mean time, I've got a day job.

FYI The cleared patches I'm talking about are only a tiny portion of the
park land.